Tripti Nath/New Delhi

Legendary radio journalist Mark Tully who has spent over six decades in India, is truly inspired by the thought of India where people from different religions can live together and pursue their own beliefs.

In an exclusive interview with Awaz-the Voice in his house in central Delhi, Sir Tully, who was BBC’s South Asia Bureau Chief for over 20 years said that India is progressing quite rapidly but more effort should be made to overhaul Indian agriculture and spread prosperity more widely.

Tully has been decorated with two of India’s highest civilian honours - the Padma Shri and the Padma Bhushan. Born in Tollygunge in 1935 in what was then called Calcutta, Mark Tully was conferred Knighthood in 2002.

An Indophile and an eternal link between Britian and India, Tully has authored several books including ‘Amritsar: Mrs Gandhi’s Last Battle’, ‘Raj To Rajiv: Forty Years Of India’s Independence’, ‘No Full Stops In India’ and ‘India In Slow motion’. Excerpts from the Interview

How do you look at India’s 75- year journey after Independence?

Well, that would take three or four books… Well, I think, India has not really received proper recognition of what it has achieved. I think, India has achieved a great deal. The number of people who have been lifted out of poverty is a very high. It is now progressing really quite rapidly but still has the image among foreigners of a country which is irredeemably poor and unable to overcome that. I think that socialism was fine for India in its early days.

I think, Nehru was wrong in a a way to concentrate so much on industrialization. I think, more effort should be made to overhaul Indian agriculture and to spread prosperity widely. The 1991 economic changes began that process but still, they were too industrialized (the focus was on industralisation). I believe, there is still at this moment too much concentration on capitalism and not enough effort to make the economy more inclusive.

Sir Tully, you have spent nearly six decades in India covering not just daily occurrences but also some of the biggest stories like the India Pakistan conflict, the Bhopal gas tragedy, Operation Blue Star, Indira Gandhi’s assassination and Rajiv Gandhi’s assassination. What are the most unforgettable moments from news coverage?

The one thing that really struck me was the horror of the Bhopal gas tragedy. I think, that was a tragic day that the Congress party needed to be blamed for as they allowed houses to come up where they were not allowed to come up. India is a journalist’s delight because one always comes across big stories. I covered political stories; I covered economic stories and I covered human rights stories.

What are your recollections of breaking the news of Indira Gandhi’s assassination to the world?

Well, I did not break the story to the world. I was the Bureau Chief but it was my colleague, Satish Jacob who broke the story to the world. On that day, I was actually in Mussoorie and was climbing up the hill of a Tibetan school. As I was climbing up the hill, I heard two policemen say that they had heard that Indira Gandhi had been shot at. So, I turned around as fast as I could to get back to Delhi. When I came back to Delhi, I found that Satish had done a wonderful job in reporting the story. We were the first to report the story.

I recall that when you got news about your knighthood, you said that you were totally surprised. You said, “ I thought you were yesterday’s man.’’ Can you relive that moment from 2002?

Well, I was in Nizamuddin East (South Delhi) in those days. I had left the BBC. I got a phone call from the British High Commissioner. He said, “Mark, we want to offer you the KBE. Will you accept?” I said, “I don’t know what is the KBE.’’ He said that it is Knighthood and that they would want me to accept this. I thought to myself that it is a very ungracious thing to do when someone makes an offer like that to you and say that one is a journalist and too independent minded to have knighthood. I decided I would accept it. My mother was then about 92. Apparently, she heard about it on BBC radio when she was having a bath early morning and she leapt out of the bath to inform some of my other brothers and sisters.

What has inspired you about India the most in the many decades of being here?

Well- what has inspired me most about India is the Indian thought as I think it to be. The fact that Indian thought means that you should be able to have people of all religions here living together with the understanding that Christians like myself do some things but don’t do other things, Muslims do things but don’t do other things. Same is true of the Hindus and the Buddhists. This is what has inspired me the most.

How about Mahatma Gandhi?

Yes, I am a great admirer of the Mahatma. And I have never tried to live like the Mahatma. I like to enjoy a drink for instance which the Mahatma did not do. Nevertheless, one can try and imitate his thinking and actions in various ways.

How do you envision the new India?

Well, I don’t like to talk about the new India. I think, India is a continuity. It has a long history and is continuing to make history. When people talk about India becoming a great power or something like that, I immediately oppose that sort of idea.  I think, India must be more inclusive so that economic growth which takes place must affect all Indians. That is a huge task and worthwhile ambition. Let the rest of the world do what they want. Let India be India in that sense.

If I were not to ask you what would be your advise to the aspiring broadcasters and journalists, this conversation would be incomplete. How do you look at the current crop of journalists?

I think, the current crop of journalists are fine. They are suffering from a lot of problems. I think, there are undue editorial pressures on them, sometimes undue government pressure and I know because I talk to them quite often. They are on contracts and have no job security. If they annoy the management, they can be booted out very easily.

You started as a broadcaster in the mid-60s when radio was supreme and commanded a lot of credibility. I understand that magnetic tapes had to be physically carried to office. How do you look at the new age media as also the future of newspapers?

When you came into the house this morning, I was reading the newspapers. I certainly hope newspapers will have a bright future. I think, we have not worked out properly the business of communication well. I think what is happening far too much in television now is bad radio actually. If you count the number of two way interviews in a television news bulletin and that is the same for BBC, for Al-Jazeera, for Doordarshan and the Indian news channels as well, it is in my view a lazy way of doing stories.

Have you got used to being addressed Sir Mark Tully? I read that you said that distinctions are embarrassing but it is arrogant to refuse them.

Yes, distinctions are embarrassing. I sometimes squirm when people say too polite things about me. I don’t have any great claims about anything except being a jobbing journalist. I am primarily a radio journalist. After I left the BBC, I did radio programmes for the BBC and other radio stations. I have always maintained that radio is the medium that sticks in people’s minds best.

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I cannot resist asking what your professional routine is like these days?

My daily professional working life is not very professional at all. All I do is get up and work on the book I am writing at the moment. I don’t do Press conferences and the normal journalist things at all.

Tripti Nath is Roving editor with Awaz-the Voice